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ICC - The Lich King (normal)


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#21 Muggins

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 12:35 PM

The tankspot video mentioned being able to Dispel the cast rather than interupting it and the spell ID certainly backs that up( Soul Rip - Spell - World of Warcraft ), so the Priest should be fine. As for the Druid he'll likely just have to shift to cat form after making sure his hots are rolling in order to interrupt the cast.

#22 Nitz

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 12:44 PM

Bash also interrupts spell casts.

#23 gcbirzan

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 01:08 PM

I'm fairly sure the lack of +hit benefiting cleansing was confirmed during Ulduar with regard to Fusion Punch. If memory serves -- and I don't think ancedotal evidence says otherwise -- there's a small chance of cleansing failing, and all the +hit in the world doesn't change that. It's as if the old rule about 1% of spells missing/being resisted that you can't avoid with hit gear applies to cleansing/dispelling.

If people know anything to the contrary, they should share it.


WoW -> Under Development -> Priest Q&A
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Is +Hit for dps only?

#24 Maleficus

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 01:11 PM

Thanks for the info. I was a bit of a moron for not reading the tooltip. Also the Warden is stunnable as per our logs, so Warstomp would work as an interrupt too I think.

#25 MizarAlcor

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 04:25 PM

As for the Druid he'll likely just have to shift to cat form after making sure his hots are rolling in order to interrupt the cast.


And pray that the interrupt won't miss, due to low or nonexistent hit. Similar to classic problem where a resto shaman can't interrupt a boss reliably.

#26 MatsT

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 04:37 PM

And pray that the interrupt won't miss, due to low or nonexistent hit. Similar to classic problem where a resto shaman can't interrupt a boss reliably.


The first time I got in with my resto shaman I had no idea what to do since there wasn't any public info. I didn't interrupt/Purge at all but rather just spamhealed the npc until he killed the mob. Yes, it took a long time ~45-60 seconds and cost me around 12k mana, but it's not like the entire try gets screwed by one miss. Just keep healing and interrupt as many as you can.

#27 Mideci

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 04:22 AM

WoW -> Under Development -> Priest Q&A
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Is +Hit for dps only?


So the problem with those links is that Ghostcrawler acknowledges that dispels can miss, but it clearly has minimal relationship with spell hit as we know it. I routinely play my holy priest with 0% hit and there is no way I miss 17% of my dispels from abilities applied by boss level mobs. I'd describe my dispel miss chance as very very close to zero -- it's surely happened, but I can't say when.

If dispel used the same mechanics as spell hit, it'd miss very very often.

#28 Melbuframa

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 06:33 AM

Has anyone else experienced Destroy Soul Destroy Soul - Spell - World of Warcraft being cast by the guy inside of frostmourne? Happened to us today on one of our 10 mans. Someone would get tossed down there and start DPSing/Healing and then BAM dead. The friendly target in there was alive when it happened.
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#29 PsiVen

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 09:43 AM

So the problem with those links is that Ghostcrawler acknowledges that dispels can miss, but it clearly has minimal relationship with spell hit as we know it. I routinely play my holy priest with 0% hit and there is no way I miss 17% of my dispels from abilities applied by boss level mobs. I'd describe my dispel miss chance as very very close to zero -- it's surely happened, but I can't say when.

If dispel used the same mechanics as spell hit, it'd miss very very often.


Yeah, I can't think of any time I've ever experienced a defensive dispel resist in a raid, through Steelbreaker farming and such. Maybe they got around to fixing it and didn't tell anyone, or the actual chance only appears in some strange edge cases? It seems like he was really talking about offensive dispels in the first link quoted, which I would expect to be more likely resisted.

#30 Silmeria

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 09:55 AM

It's not fixed, I've seen it already on Lich King, multiple times across various classes.

#31 Malleus

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 10:40 AM

Yeah, I can't think of any time I've ever experienced a defensive dispel resist in a raid, through Steelbreaker farming and such.


I handle Mutated Infection cleansing on Rotface for our guild, and I will often (as in, at least once an attempt on average) have a cleanse fail and the target retain their debuff. However, the cleanse "resist" message doesn't actually say "resist" - it always says "fail".

It may be similar to when I was testing the Frost badge libram on Putricide; despite being hit/exp capped and attacking from behind I was having so many Crusader Strikes miss that the stack kept falling off. My surmise then was that a server-side position check was moving Prof out of range in the time it took the ability announcement to go from client to server. As the targets showing anomalous results on Rotface were also moving, that would be a consistent explanation.

#32 Valerian

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 02:14 PM

It may be similar to when I was testing the Frost badge libram on Putricide; despite being hit/exp capped and attacking from behind I was having so many Crusader Strikes miss that the stack kept falling off. My surmise then was that a server-side position check was moving Prof out of range in the time it took the ability announcement to go from client to server. As the targets showing anomalous results on Rotface were also moving, that would be a consistent explanation.


If you were actually getting "misses" and not "parrys" then its not a frontal positioning issue. What is likely the case here is the choking gas which adds the high miss chance for a while. I've seen a ton of raid members swear they were not in it, but then wonder why a bunch of their attacks keep missing.

In terms of resist % it may have something to do with the person you're dispelling. We're only level 80 targets which would mean the resist chance would be a lot lower than 17%. Has anyone noticed it happening to any particular classes? I know those resists have happened to me on my druid while tanking steelbreaker, when cast by our disc priest. I don't think we've seen an attempt yet on Lich king though where a dispel has failed.

Anecdotally our disc priest on Lich king as ALWAYS been in a drenai group. I don't know if that was the case for steelbreaker but it might make the difference if 1% spell hit is sufficient to cap you versus an equal level target.

#33 Moshne

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 06:20 PM

If you were actually getting "misses" and not "parrys" then its not a frontal positioning issue. What is likely the case here is the choking gas which adds the high miss chance for a while. I've seen a ton of raid members swear they were not in it, but then wonder why a bunch of their attacks keep missing.

In terms of resist % it may have something to do with the person you're dispelling. We're only level 80 targets which would mean the resist chance would be a lot lower than 17%. Has anyone noticed it happening to any particular classes? I know those resists have happened to me on my druid while tanking steelbreaker, when cast by our disc priest. I don't think we've seen an attempt yet on Lich king though where a dispel has failed.

Anecdotally our disc priest on Lich king as ALWAYS been in a drenai group. I don't know if that was the case for steelbreaker but it might make the difference if 1% spell hit is sufficient to cap you versus an equal level target.


We had such a bad string of resists that we stopped using our priest as the dispeller at all on LK. (Yes, we checked the log to make sure it was actually failure on casts.) She is a draenei, so I assume that isn't it. If it is using any standard resist mechanic, it would likely use the PVP resist levels, which would require 4% to not miss. It would be interesting if the hit reduction talents actually were counterproductive as well, (Things such as chances for "own" buffs to be dispelled and passive hit mechanics like the Blood Elf resist racial.) If it did use the 4% PVP base, and you were a draenei or with one, you'd expect a 3% miss rate, this would jive with the anecdote above of likely getting one on average per Rotface kill, and with some having never noticed them at all.

Being that tanks routinely run low, but 4%+ hit, has any pally tank ever gotten a dispel resist in their tanking gear?

EDIT: Yes, I realize both of the 'Blue' posts say its because of the boss level being higher than you. Ny experience and other anecdotes don't seem to show anything near the expected miss levels due to this.

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#34 Ashen

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 07:06 PM

Has anyone else experienced Destroy Soul Destroy Soul - Spell - World of Warcraft being cast by the guy inside of frostmourne? Happened to us today on one of our 10 mans. Someone would get tossed down there and start DPSing/Healing and then BAM dead. The friendly target in there was alive when it happened.


We saw this several times before our first LK kill on 25 and just assumed it had to do with the proper dispel / interrupt of the Soul Rip.

Though we had heard accounts of priests being down there just healing and wanding, so we weren't sure why it went they way it did. So far I haven't been able to figure out an apparent trigger for it, though it might be anti-exploit mechanism if nothing else. But in short, yes, we did encounter this too and I haven't been able to figure out why. The only thing I know is that it happened when we hadn't figured out Soul Rip, and once we started interrupting / dispelling it, it wasn't an issue anymore.

#35 Melbuframa

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:02 AM

I don't think its the dispel/interrupts because it happened to our aff lock who would use his FH to both devour and interrupt the cast. First time it happened to him in the first 5 seconds of being ported, the 2nd time it happened right before he was to be ported out. He said he didnt move when he got posted down, just stood there and started DPSing, when our priest went down she said she just shielded and started healing and it still happened. Could be some strange range issue.
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#36 Nerfbat

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 10:21 AM

How many different things can block the defile? CoS/Vanish, bubbles, invis/iceblock?

#37 sp00n

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 10:33 AM

CoS doesn't work, didn't have the chance to try vanish. It's a SPELL_SUMMON though, so I guess it's an "invisible" creature summoned under the player's position. Vanish may work, but I guess he casts it anyways.

Also vanish does not work for the Valkyrs, neither after you've been grabbed (you can't do anything) nor directly before (they grab you anyways).

That being said, is there anything at all that can block defile?


On another issue, be sure to have a talented demo shout for this battle (in 25 at least). Yesterday we had quite some fun time until we noticed that we only had untalented, causing Soul Reaper to destroy our tanks quite regularly.

Stopped Playing


#38 Gofa

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 01:04 PM

Yes, you can block defile but it is useless. One of our rogues vanished it but Arthas casted a new defile instantly on another player.

#39 Lorune

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 01:30 PM

On another issue, be sure to have a talented demo shout for this battle (in 25 at least). Yesterday we had quite some fun time until we noticed that we only had untalented, causing Soul Reaper to destroy our tanks quite regularly.


The problem is not so much in improved demo or not, its that i am assuming your dealing with the mechanic wrong.

Lich king casts Soulreaper
Soulreaper applies a shadow dmg debuff increasing melee damage taken by lich king.
Soulreaper expires and deals alot of shadow damage.

The way to prevent this is to have your OT taunt Lich king right after he applies the Soul reaper debuff and when the debuff expired and MT is healed up he just taunts it back. We used this tactic on both 10 and 25 man and it works like a charm.

A taunt glyph is highly recommended for this.

#40 sp00n

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 02:15 PM

The problem is not so much in improved demo or not, its that i am assuming your dealing with the mechanic wrong.

Lich king casts Soulreaper
Soulreaper applies a shadow dmg debuff increasing melee damage taken by lich king.
Soulreaper expires and deals alot of shadow damage.

The way to prevent this is to have your OT taunt Lich king right after he applies the Soul reaper debuff and when the debuff expired and MT is healed up he just taunts it back. We used this tactic on both 10 and 25 man and it works like a charm.

A taunt glyph is highly recommended for this.


We did that, however the 100% haste buff 5 seconds after Soul Reaper was a killer for us, especially when things got a bit more stressful for the healers. The tank would just die.
After we've found out that we only had untalented demo shout, things worked better. But still no kill so far for us.

Stopped Playing





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