Jump to content


Photo

harder? (twin Emps)


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 jilanea

jilanea

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 71 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 11:47 AM

Last night we had our second full night trying twin emps and got them to sub 50% a few times. Mainly failing due to poor healer movement and a lot of blizzards or a 1 off mistake.

We are however a little worried that changes to dps and tanking will make this fight a lot harder in 2.0. We use the warrior battle shout method with all mages dpsing and warlocks plus 1 warrior on the bugs.

My 3 questions are

1. Do the changes to hunters reduce their dps here by much? ie no arcane shot(is immune?), nerfed aimed shot, no multi shot(bug agro), no pet(40 person reset).

2. Can mages still dps much, using battle shout tanking on caster emp with the new battle shout changes.

3. Do any other fights seem noticably easier/harder? (other than for extremely obvious reasons such as decursive breaking)

We would like to enter Naxx if twin emps have taken a heavy up turn in difficultly we only raid 3 nights a week so wasting time is a big deal for us.

#2 Judia

Judia

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 300 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 11:55 AM

If you believe RnD most of NAxx is pretty broken right now too, certainly Raz, and Patchwerk are spawning threads of their own.
To err is human

#3 R4zza

R4zza

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:31 PM

This is probably wrong, but some Warrior told me the more people buffed by the Battle Shout, the more threat generated, you could just make sure the Warrior tanking is in a group which will be near him the whole time to take the buff.
Like i say, it could be bullshit.

#4 Pleun

Pleun

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:34 PM

Fixed an issue where Warrior "Battle Shout" was causing too much threat.

I really doubt "BS tanking" will still be possible.

#5 kais[bo]

kais[bo]

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 101 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:35 PM

you don't even need to do the shouts to warrior tank the caster. the proximity aggro when teleporting in is easily enough to stay above the healers until he ports out again. even without -aggro talents, bos or TA totem. ofc you can not dps him much. but having melee + hunters on the melee twin is plenty of dmg.

#6 R4zza

R4zza

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:39 PM

I really doubt "BS tanking" will still be possible.

Why? The closest player to the Twin at the port will still be given a ton of threat. Even if BS only gave a very small amount of threat it should still be possible to hold agro with it, just tell your casters to only cast 1 spell at the Caster Twin, or not at all if your melee/hunter dps is enough.

#7 Pleun

Pleun

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:39 PM

Depends what your raidsetup looks like. I doubt you'll pull it off without warlocks if you have alot of casters, since BS allowed you (afaik) to have a pretty decent amount of DPS on the caster twin, which will be hard with only proximity aggro. Are there actually any numbers about the proximity threat?

#8 Bubba

Bubba

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 344 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:33 PM

Just seems like a nudge towards Warlock tanks. Yes you can probably still do it with Warriors via Teleport aggro, but it'll severely gimp your caster dps on Vek'lor, whereas those that do it with Warlocks won't notice any difference at all (except potential mage aggro snafu's)

#9 R4zza

R4zza

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:34 PM

I once watched a video of a Warrior melee tanking the Caster Emp as normal, it was crazy, i guess you could still do that.

#10 Praetorian

Praetorian

    Mike Tyson

  • ♦ Administrators
  • 27827 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:37 PM

I once watched a video of a Warrior melee tanking the Caster Emp as normal, it was crazy, i guess you could still do that.

We've always done this. Also if you're Horde you can give the warrior Flametongue totem.

Vek'lor does much less damage at melee range than at a distance. It's just spikier with Burst, but you quickly get a feel for healing through that. If a tank has >9k hp and has alert healers, Vek'lor at melee range is trivial, and fun from a healing perspective. Also it means neither warrior ever moves, neither emp ever moves. It makes things nice and stable.

#11 Ghostz

Ghostz

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 457 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:40 PM

We do basically what Gurg said, no dps on Vek'lor. We have the rogues/hunters pack it up from side to side and keep on Vek'nilash and the mages/warlocks handle the big bugs that come up. Unless something has changed on their side making them do more damage or something crazy (I wouldn't be surprised given Blizzard's track record with random bugs in random fights) I don't see why this fight would be any easier/harder.

#12 Kamna

Kamna

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 34 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:42 PM

How about coating weapons with stuff like shadow oil and fiery weapon enchants? Would those also let the warrior do a tiny amount of damage on Vek'lor?

#13 Maynard

Maynard

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 263 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:44 PM

I can't speak for twin emps specifically, but we had a raid tonight and our general feeling was that things are a little harder. Decursing on Noth was surprisingly not that bad (after two wipes our druids/mages had it down to an art), but DPS was rotten. We've killed Loatheb with world buffs without having to use a third shadow pot before, so to see Noth be difficult was... unusual. A few people did get themselves killed, and our MT was hacked recently so we had to use an OT, but from being comfortably ~1 minute early on our kills to what we are now is... astonishing.

And yes, hunter DPS will suffer hugely on emps. BM Hunters might do alright, so long as pets are healed through unbalancing strike.

#14 Ghostz

Ghostz

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 457 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:45 PM

I'm pretty sure they would yeah, the thunderfury proc does damage to Vek'lor, but you have to be careful since they made aoe effects like that aggro neutrals.

#15 Kamna

Kamna

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 34 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:48 PM

Heh, yeah, we had our tanks pack away their thunder furies for that very reason. Guess we'll have a shot at it with those swords back out :s

#16 Elerion

Elerion

    Great Tiger

  • Members
  • 861 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:50 PM

Judging raid dps at this point is sort of futile. A ton of people will have suboptimal specs, and have lost their macros and uis. I'd expect a 5-20% raid dps drop just from that, depending on how much they relied on macros/ui in the first place, and how good they are at theorycrafting. Give it two weeks and they'll be close to their potential again.

#17 xarg

xarg

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 196 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 02:28 PM

After doing emps tonight, yes it is harder to do dps on them. Especially if you don't use a warlock tank, due to the battle shout nerf and aimed shot nerf. Hunters are pretty much using auto-shot and that's it. Casters aren't dpsing emps at all (if so, extremely minimal). We took over 13 mins to kill them. To give you an idea of our regular dps, c'thun was 38% after the first vuln.

#18 kais[bo]

kais[bo]

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 101 posts

Posted 06 December 2006 - 03:33 PM

Depends what your raidsetup looks like. I doubt you'll pull it off without warlocks if you have alot of casters, since BS allowed you (afaik) to have a pretty decent amount of DPS on the caster twin, which will be hard with only proximity aggro. Are there actually any numbers about the proximity threat?

did them yesterday with 5 hunters, 3 rogues and 4 warriors (2-3 fury). if you have much less then that amount of physical dmg in your raid, your setup is badly fucked up i guess. btw 2 of those hunters were alts along with 2 of the warriors and had the appropiate gear (one hunter with blue gun, one with mc bow, one warrior with 2% dodge BWL axe etc) and we still killed them around 12-13 minutes without doing caster dps.

i was in another guild where we used to warlock tank them, its just much harder and a lot more stuff can go wrong imo. warrior tanking is simple + effective, wouldn't try anything else really.

#19 Luckyshot

Luckyshot

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 07 December 2006 - 04:28 AM

Just to mention something to the fact, we got our first twin emps kill approximately 2 months ago. Always used 2 warriors, never used BS for the magic emp. Basically we gave our mages/warlocks a rule of 3k damage per teleport. Unless a caster is greedy, we nevered had aggro pulled. We basically tank the magic emp, as though he is melee.

#20 Evert

Evert

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 177 posts

Posted 07 December 2006 - 04:56 AM

I once watched a video of a Warrior melee tanking the Caster Emp as normal, it was crazy, i guess you could still do that.

We've always done this. Also if you're Horde you can give the warrior Flametongue totem.

Vek'lor does much less damage at melee range than at a distance. It's just spikier with Burst, but you quickly get a feel for healing through that. If a tank has >9k hp and has alert healers, Vek'lor at melee range is trivial, and fun from a healing perspective. Also it means neither warrior ever moves, neither emp ever moves. It makes things nice and stable.

we also do it this way as alliance, works easy enough... when we started we had to stack melee but now it doesnt matter much
\"Listen, I\'m trying to have a serious conversation about ferret bras and you are not listening\"




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users