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Moonkin PvE Discussion, 3.3.3


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#321 Yijiao

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:13 PM

Generally speaking, our DoTs are very, very weak. Moonfire without the starfire/moonfire glyphs would be as weak as insect swarm.

The reality is, saving insect swarm to be used when you have to do short burst movements, which tend to occur on most fights, it will benefit you in the long run.

That being said, letting your idol buff drop is never going to be in your best interest, so DoT if you notice the buff won't last until the next time you are allegedly supposed to cast moonfire.

Reality is, the mechanics of our DoTs, because one has frontloaded damage and the other has a hit debuff, are such that they scale poorly from the damage perspective. This won't be an issue next expansion, though.

#322 Hamlet

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 07:57 AM

WC doesn't actually account for potential Idol dropping. If it's telling you that best DPS is to keep MF once per cycle and not use IS at all, then hold as close to that as you can without dropping you buff.

I suppose this does actually imply that you need to watch your Vicious stack in order to DPS optimally, which is something we should probably talk about more.

#323 Kaelandros

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 01:40 PM

Yea, I recognized that the damage from the DoT wasn't totally meaningless, but also wasn't enough to warrant interrupting the normal rotation. It was the idol proc that concerned me more as I actually need that crit to reach my lunar crit cap at the moment. Sad I know. I figured for the most part WrathCalcs was a good guideline but that adjustments would have to be made where logic demands.

In case you want to see the character sheet here is the link to WoW armory.

#324 Zelis

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 11:12 AM

"Under the effect of Bloodlust, Wrath will gain very little DPS since it's usually so close to the 1s GCD minimum in the first place. The goal during Bloodlust is to use Lunar Eclipse as much as possible. As of 3.3, we can no longer cancel Solar during Bloodlust to make it possible to proc Lunar more quickly, so the spell rotation is largely unchanged. You should get at least one Lunar Eclipse during Bloodlust if you simply maintain your standard rotation; you should use your [Potion of Speed] at that point. If you know when Bloodlust is coming, remember to cast Force of Nature immediately beforehand.

Overall, our benefit from Bloodlust is much smaller than most classes' (roughly 10-12% more DPS for the duration), since only Starfire is significantly affected by the buff."

It is still true ?.Becasue i tested spam starfire tactic so many times and i always have more dps than your tactic.With nature's grace proc i m casting starfire 1.3

#325 Arythorn

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 03:35 PM

IF you can get Starfire down to 1.3 sec cast during Lust THEN:

Starfire spam for duration will work.

IF you can NOT get Starfire down to 1.3 sec cast during Lust THEN:

Follow standard Eclipse rotation.


If you used theoretical maximums, you could figure this out by comparing

Avg Non-Eclipsed Wrath*1.4*15 to get Wrath damage for those 15 seconds.

Then divide the above number by your Average Non-Eclipsed Starfire cast damage to get number of Starfire casts required to provide equal or greater damage. For instance, a bit of target dummy time to get a representative sample of non-Elicpsed Wrath and Starfire cast damage tells me my:


Average Non-Eclipsed Wrath = 6,827
Average Non-Eclipsed Starfire = 12,655

6827*1.4*15=143,378

145,635/12,655 = 11.33 Starfire casts to equate the same damage

15/11.33 = 1.32 Starfire cast speed required.

Reality is we just about never get in a perfect 15 Wraths into a Solar. However, if we said 12 or 13 Wraths and did the math based on that, it doesn't fundamentally change. Right around 1.3 cast speed is a good place to call it.

#326 Zelis

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 06:02 PM

and one more thing can come from me, if you are using pre pot you can macro Gift of the Wild to it,so you will proc set bonus for sure and gain extra dps :)

#327 Dav1l

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 05:01 PM

IF you can get Starfire down to 1.3 sec cast during Lust THEN:

Starfire spam for duration will work.

IF you can NOT get Starfire down to 1.3 sec cast during Lust THEN:

Follow standard Eclipse rotation.

That's basically what everyone is doing. But there's another question about Heroism and your rotation. Is it worth proccing another Lunar eclipse after the first one expired? What you basically get in a raid environment:
Start of the fight, proccing Lunar straightaway.
0-15 - Lunar eclipse.
16-30 - Solar eclipse probably procced but we continue casting Starfires.
31-40 - Time to proc Lunar or continue casting Starfires till Hero ends?
I couldn't test it properly last raid as I got really bad RNG on all of the static and semi-static encounters getting spores, diseases, etc.

EDIT: We use hero at the start on almost everything (if we don't have the debuff of course).

#328 Arythorn

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 07:09 PM

When Lunar comes of GCD, I'll throw out two Wraths to see if I can quick proc a Lunar again. If not I'm back to Starfire spam til the end of lust. That's just my solution -- not backing it up with anything other than I've had reasonably good luck getting Lunar to proc in those two casts and it seems worth the two GCDs to give it a shot.

#329 Carebare

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 01:49 AM

Closing this. Most of the thread is not patch relevant. Please use the appropriately labeled thread.

i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone
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