Jump to content


Protection Warrior in Arena


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#21 Nakilos

Nakilos

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 214 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 07:48 PM

I am MT for my guild, and did not respec out of prot for my 5v5 arena fights.

We had a holy priest, holy paladin, rogue (unsure of spec), enhancement shaman and myself, 5/11/45.

I expected going in to be little more than an annoyance, one that bad teams (if we were lucky) would focus on and one that good teams would ignore. What I found instead was that between pummel, conc blow, pummel, war stop, pummel, intim shout, pummel, intercept, pummel, I was able to keep a healer locked down for a very long period of time. If a team had two healers, I went for the heavier one (pally or shaman) while the rest of the team focused on the ligher one (priest or druid.) We went 13-5, raising our overall rating for the week to 1590.

Add in Commanding shout, intervene (yes, common abilities, I know) and piercing howl, and I felt like I was contributing a lot, and had reached the realm of "utility," up from "annoyance."

I wore duel wield DPS gear to help with rage gen, ready to swap on a shield if I attracted magical DPS attention.

Would a DPS warrior been better suited to my spot? Perhaps. They don't have as many interrupt options, but have additional damage available. Did any of my team feel like I was a waste of a spot, even though we all half expected/feared just that? Nope.


Not to rag on you, but the only difference between you and the arms or fury warrior is neither of them have concussion blow, which still has a 45 second cooldown, otherwise the interrupt options are identical. The former would have Mortal Strike though, the latter would have the option of Improved Intercept which I found to be a really great PVP talent when I did PVP, and Death Wish does have varying utility just from the fear prevention. Both have significantly higher damage output too, and that matters, because it forces their healers to actually have to deal with someones face getting stomped in. Again, the Protection warrior only has 1 additional stun, really poor burst and sustained damage output. Compared to other classes who can heal, stun, or otherwise have more reliable CC options, and significantly higher damage output, the Protection warrior really has no place on a serious arena team. Sure you might be a quick distraction but honestly a good team would recognize that you really aren't a threat pretty quickly, cc you off and focus fire the actual threats on the team.

I guess there is Shield Slam, but I am not convinced its in fact a 50% dispel, more like 10% if that for the times when I've used it and it actually dispelled anything.

#22 Branar

Branar

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 381 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 08:02 PM

I've stayed with Protection so far. I run a casual 2v2 team with a PvE resto-specced druid.

We lose an awful lot. We can hold our own against low-dps teams (i.e. 1 healer/1 DPS, 2 off-specced healers, etc) simply because our survivability is quite high and we can often outlast them, but against high DPS teams (warlocks, mages, etc) I'm not dealing enough damage and it shows -- where an arms warrior might be able to seriously injure or kill a high-DPS clothie in the few seconds between being CC'd, I can't.

I will say that in 2v2 with a druid (who can start stealthed, in catform) I have the advantage of being the only visible target at the start of the match, which at least lets my durability come into play more than it would otherwise. Similarly, with Perception, we're often able to win The Stealth Game ™, and I can generally unstealth an enemy rogue before he's able to jump my druid teammate and stunlock her to death. Either way, I usually end up as the focus of attention for the enemies for the first few seconds at least, which gives me a bit of rage to work with at the beginning of the fight as well as taking at least some advantage of my mitigation.

It's not the worst thing ever. On the plus side, you can expect to be stuck playing against a lot of people who're also using their PvE specs, or who simply aren't very good, because your rating won't ever get too high. That's how it's been for us in 2v2, anyway.

#23 Keline

Keline

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 715 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 08:03 PM

What you're seeing is that the rogue is re-stacking the poison as fast as you can cleanse it, combined with the fact that Wound Poison stacks five times at -10% healing per stack. There are ways to deal with that, depending on your group, so it's debatable which debuff is "worse." In one case, you need a single class to blow a significant cooldown. In the other, you have to CC the rogue to prevent re-application, then dispell up to five times (or use Abolish Poison or Poison Cleansing Totem if available).

My combat log says "failed failed failed failed" so no, it is impossible to remove a mainhand poison. Any poison applied through a yellow attack is undispellable currently.

#24 Gort

Gort

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 298 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 08:15 PM

My combat log says "failed failed failed failed" so no, it is impossible to remove a mainhand poison. Any poison applied through a yellow attack is undispellable currently.


If talented, any poison stack is +40% dispel resist, which could easily account for those results. (Unless you've tested w/ a known-spec rogue and Shiv, which should be easy enough to do.)

#25 Keline

Keline

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 715 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 08:17 PM

Except that the rogue I've tested with this doesn't have vile poisons, but feel free to try that test yourself.

#26 Warmaker

Warmaker

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 08:18 PM

I guess there is Shield Slam, but I am not convinced its in fact a 50% dispel, more like 10% if that for the times when I've used it and it actually dispelled anything.


QFT there! You aren't the only one with bad luck in that aspect.

Anyways, I readily agree that either Arms or Fury is a much more viable arena spec, there is no arguing it. I was arguing on the other end, the lowest common denominator of being merely an annoyance or having a legitimate role on the team. The OP was asking about protection warriors specifically, and what role they could fill, more along the lines of if they had a spot they could fit, not if someone else could fit that spot better.

While others may be able to do the job better, prot warriors can lock down a healer well, and I was merely sharing that I was able to do it to great effect (I know 1590 rating isn't that great, but 13-5 doesn't suck.) Would we have been able to go 13-4 or better with an arms or fury warrior? Maybe, perhaps even probably, but I don't know that this was the point under discussion.

Either way it wasn't my point, and I certainly don't disagree with yours.

#27 Roses

Roses

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 38 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:13 PM

My combat log says "failed failed failed failed" so no, it is impossible to remove a mainhand poison. Any poison applied through a yellow attack is undispellable currently.


Does it say "fail" or resist? A resist is most likely just that, a resist. I saw the resist message pop up all the time when trying to purge priests with the 20% silent resolve talent. If it says "immune" or some other variant other than "resist" then yes, it's bugged. If it says "cannot dispel" or "nothing to dispel" then I don't know what to say. Rogues need to be toned down for arenas?

#28 Keline

Keline

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 715 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:21 PM

"Nothing to dispell" isn't a combat log message
I clearly tried to dispell and it failed, I'm not sure on the exact wording but I think it says "you failed to..."

#29 Flavahbeast

Flavahbeast

    im chocula

  • Moderators
  • 2734 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:26 PM

It's better on an RP server, because taunt actually works.


laf

blizzard just needs to let warriors swap between 2 specs with a 1g reagent or something. they don't seem capable of making prot work in pvp

#30 Doko

Doko

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:52 PM

The main problem with using a rogue instead of an arms warrior is that the rogue is a very viable assist target. If the opposing team sees you have no warrior or that your warrior is prot, then the rogue will likely get assisted which makes poison application very difficult between stuns, snares, and fears. If the rogue dies the game is pretty much over. Speccing prep for 2 evasions and a CoS can help, as well as the chance to resist dispel, but that would mean the rogue is using daggers, which creates even more positioning problems, especially when being assisted on. Yes, if the rogue was allowed to attack a target without being bothered it would be nearly impossible to remove wound poison but that's just not going to happen against a good team, MS only has to be applied once every 10 seconds. I highly doubt there will be a top team without an MS warrior, it seems pretty much a requirement at the moment.

#31 Vontre

Vontre

    Mr. Sandman

  • Allied Members
  • 5458 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 10:03 PM

Speccing prep for 2 evasions and a CoS can help, as well as the chance to resist dispel, but that would mean the rogue is using daggers, which creates even more positioning problems, especially when being assisted on.


....hemo?

Regarding the poison thing, I did a ton of duels against a rogue using dual crip poison, who was not specced for vile poisons. When crip was on and I was fully clear of melee, escape artist failed to work every single tim (I didn't read the combat log). My pvp trinket, however, seems to always work...

#32 Fiola

Fiola

    Great Tiger

  • Members
  • 956 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 10:39 PM

....hemo?

Regarding the poison thing, I did a ton of duels against a rogue using dual crip poison, who was not specced for vile poisons. When crip was on and I was fully clear of melee, escape artist failed to work every single tim (I didn't read the combat log). My pvp trinket, however, seems to always work...

PvP trinket makes you immune to [Fear/Stun/Seduce/Immobillize/Whatever Your Class Trinket does] effects for a brief moment, so that probably explains the success rate. (Immunity doesn't fail, AFAIK)

For Escape Artist, do you mean that the ability attempted to remove the poison but failed, or that it refused to activate on the poison?

#33 Keline

Keline

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 715 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 11:00 PM

Does escape artist even have a fail-safe? I bet it's the same issue as I have with cleanse.

#34 Guest_Ahiru_*

Guest_Ahiru_*
  • Guests

Posted 21 February 2007 - 11:04 PM

It's possible that Crippling Poison is classified as a poison but not a movement impairing effect, so that Escape Artist doesn't remove it but various cleanses do.

Keline, if you actually have a 0% cleanse rate against rogues who don't have Vile Poisons, and your sample size is sufficiently large, you may have found a bug. But I'm not gonna complain about it :)

#35 Keline

Keline

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 715 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 11:33 PM

incorrect, BoF removes Crip

and I'm surprised you haven't heard of that before, I've seen it mentioned 2 weeks ago already and tested it mysefl




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users